Traveller-digest      Monday, October 11 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1188



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical Re-enactment
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
No Attachments to TML Posts (was: Re: Traveller Forms)
Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1185
Re: The elusive Feudal Technocracy
Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse
Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)
Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE Many guns II
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection
Re: Metric System & GURPS
Re: Annic Nova (canon)
Re: 21st century spaceports
Re: Annic Nova (longish)
RE: Derelict starships
Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)
RE: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)
Re: Feudal Technocracy
Re: Annic Nova
Re: Traveller Forms
Re: Feudal technocracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:42:45 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: 1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical Re-enactment

>From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
>Subject: Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse
...

  <ahem> And our next contestant... Mike Peters! Come on down!!
...
>Weeellll... NOw that you've brought the subject up, I've been doing some
>calculations, which depends on the fact that, as everyone knows, the
>Rule of Man reached Tech Level Z in the second year of it's existence...

  In keeping with the mandate of the 1997 ROM TL Flamewar Historical
Re-enactment Society* we proudly present "Trolling for Leroy-ites**":

  Seeing's as the indicator "Z" is listed in HG2 as being "reserved", you
may actually have hit upon the true (i.e., Leroys) answer!

  For your next assignment please choose one or more of the following:
i) why do no CT/MT books properly refer to the ROM as being explicitly
TL G+? Is it merely bad editing or is there a conspiracy at work?
ii) account for why the MT rules books listing maximum TL in the 3I as being
F really means "DGP wants to give out kewl TL G toys, so Terra was TL F or G
at a minimum during the Solomani Rim War".
iii) <fnord>
iv) why was Terra TL G+ between 2311 AD & 2745 AD, TL E or F circa 5520
AD, and neither maintained an empire during the Long Night nor was able to
further increase their TL in the intervening _two-and-a-half millennia_??

  Demerits may be issued for coherent arguments.

  Please work out the answers at your convenience, and then inform the list
of your success. _Do not_ explain any answers you might choose to provide.

  *with the assistance of the Traveller Socialist Conspiracy.
 **kind of like Scientologists, except presumably harder to reason with***.
***we assume, `cuz it never appeared to actually succeed...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:21:34 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

>> >"How effective is a panzerfaust against a troll, Heinz?"

>> Ah, I see I'm not the only one to have read that Dragon article ...

>Must have been a reprint. The original was in The Strategic Review, the
>TSR "newslettr" that preceeded the Dragon. 

It is in the original "Best of the Dragon" p46.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 02:16:12 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: No Attachments to TML Posts (was: Re: Traveller Forms)

Alex Ingram wrote:
> 
> Ok, how do I get the forms posted on downport? Here are the first two.
> 
> Alex Ingram
> 
For future reference:  _Please_ don't post attachments to the TML. 
While most of us Statesiders don't have to pay per-minute for the local
call to access the Internet, many of our overseas brethren _do_ have to
pay per-minute.  They shouldn't be compelled to waste bandwidth
downloading attachments that they don't want.

Downport.com should have an e-mail link on the site (I never looked for
one, but most sites have one).  Talk to them directly about file
transfers.

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:00:44 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 5:42 AM
Subject: RE: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)


> Timothy Collinson writes:
> <snipped>
> >I am right in thinking that breastfeeding acts as an
> >(effective?) contraceptive aren't I?
> <snipped>
>
> I think that it may reduce the odds of getting pregnant,
> but not to zero.  Getting only barely enough to eat is
> probably more effective at contraception.
>
> Peez
>

My wife works in childcare and has seen over the years, women whom breast
feed, with children only 9-10 months older than the new baby.  That's to say
that the youngest child was conceived within days of the eldest's birth and
while breastfeeding that child.  I can't say how common it is though.

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:36:10 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1185

>Yeah, and I really want to dip my nice red-hot crytaliron hull in a
>brine bath. Seriously IMO landing recently re-entered, and thus
>somewhat warm, starships in salty sea water is proably not going to do
>much for their longevity.

Since dumping or reflecting heat is a serious design concideration, I would
assume that this is allready factered into starships designs.

The Space shuttle's black insulation bricks can be touched SECONDS after being
taken out of a furnace. While the bricks still glow.

A spaceship doing any reasonable speed required for landing/takeoff will be
designed to dump reaction heat generated by friction, if only to protect the
crew inside.

And lets face it, Travelelr material bounces plasma. Salt water would not affect
it...

ObTrav : A deralict spaceship is found submurged underwater, from the
Interstellar Wars. The hulls are fine, but the nuclear missiles have rusted to
critical state, and need to be removed before damaging the enviroment (booms,
radiation el at)

Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:34:54 +0100
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The elusive Feudal Technocracy

Craig Berry wrote:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:18:31 -0400
> > From: "Chris Peers" <peersce@mindspring.com>
> >
> > I have read the definitions.  What does the TML have to say on it.  What is
> > it?  Why does it come about?  How do the citizens live?  Interested to hear
> > all answers.
> 
> Nooooooooo!  It is the time the prophets warned us of so long ago, when
> the Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse would rage over the TML
> simultaneiously!  Already we had "where does jump fuel go" and "what was
> the best rules version".  Now the terrifying countenance of "what is a
> feudal technocracy" blazes in the heavens.  Can it be long before "why
> don't people fight wars with near-c rocks" emerges from the sea to
> complete the prophecy and signal the doom of us all?
> 
> ...but really, why *don't* they?  It's a lot more efficient than orbital
> bombardment.  Of course, a lot depends on whether you assume HEPlaR or
> t-plates...
> 
> <eg>
> 
> --
>    |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
>  --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
>    |      "There it is; take it."  - William Mulholland

ROFL ......

- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   #include<stddisclaimer.h>

   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:38:20 +0100
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse

Black ICE wrote:
> 
> Craig Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:18:31 -0400
> > > From: "Chris Peers" <peersce@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > I have read the definitions.  What does the TML have to say on it.  What is
> > > it?  Why does it come about?  How do the citizens live?  Interested to hear
> > > all answers.
> >
> > Nooooooooo!  It is the time the prophets warned us of so long ago, when
> > the Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse would rage over the TML
> > simultaneiously!  Already we had "where does jump fuel go" and "what was
> > the best rules version".  Now the terrifying countenance of "what is a
> > feudal technocracy" blazes in the heavens.  Can it be long before "why
> > don't people fight wars with near-c rocks" emerges from the sea to
> > complete the prophecy and signal the doom of us all?
> 
> Now is the time of the Gathering, when the stroke of a key will unleash
> a spray of Pepsi on the keyboard.  In the end, there can be only one....
> 
> I think it's about time that the Keeper of the FAQ repost the TML FAQ
> URL, in a (probably futile) attempt to put out these flamewars, before
> they consume us all.
> >

I've just lost two keyboards in a matter of minuets. Stop it please
you killing me.

- -- 

   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death
                                      Rode the six hundred.
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson

   #include<stddisclaimer.h>

   My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:36:13 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)

On 11 Oct 99, at 18:00, The Roc wrote:

> My wife works in childcare and has seen over the years, women whom breast
> feed, with children only 9-10 months older than the new baby.  That's to
> say that the youngest child was conceived within days of the eldest's
> birth and while breastfeeding that child.  I can't say how common it is
> though.

Apparently 40% of non-nursing and 15% of nursing mothers being 
menstruation within 6 weeks, and about 10% of mothers will be fertile 
before their first post-birth period, so I'd say "not very".


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:05:30 EDT
From: RASFranzen@aol.com
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED RE Many guns II

Tom Schoene wrote:

<<   As for reloads, you see many operators using some
        form of multiple magazine holder these days, with mags clipped together or
        otherwise mounted on gun for fast reloads (but definitely not taped
        together with one upside down as so often shown in the movies). >>

Actually from my experience in some areas I would like to attest that many 
real life troops and rebels tie Kalashnikov magazines that way. Of course the 
Kalashnikov is often used for unaimed suppressive fire,
best wishes
Soenke Franzen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:33:21 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Carlino <carlino@home.com>
To: Traveller Mailing list <traveller@mpgn.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection


> >Black ICE writes:
> >
> >> And exactly what effect does the suit running at 70 mph have on the
> >>legs
> >> of the wearer?
>
> >I'm not _defending_ the BD.  Just commenting.
>
> I'm not defending the BD either, but it's obvious to me that the suit must
> have been designed using Mecha rules--which means the suit running at 70
mph
> should have no effect on the legs of the wearer, since the legs of the
> wearer aren't in the legs of the mecha.
>

Just curious with terminology now, but is a mecha (as you describe this) a
vehicle or a suit?  My personal take on the term "Battle Dress" was that it
was "worn" by the user, not sat in like a vehicle?  Could this be where a
lot of confusion stems from with these things/issues?  Is this unit a mech
or power assisted armour?

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:13:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metric System & GURPS

In mail you write:

>>Nyet, nyet, oh space cadets distances should be measured in "arshines" the
>>most logical and reasonable unit of land distance ever created and blessed
>>by the Czar.
>
> I'm holding out for good ole cubits.

The Priest Kings have declared that such be measured in pasangs.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:39:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (canon)

In mail you write:

> At 02:39 AM 10/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Agreed! I've made tools to make tools. Not the same as electronics
>>though. I'd have to say that while the physical properties could be
>>duplicated, after very pains taking work, there are still a lot of
>>varables that can stop it from working. Probably why we aren't using
>>full fledged scout ships, just dribs and drabs of the technology from
>>them, as we reach a point where we can understand it enough to duplicate
>>it and finally get it to work.
>
> Yeah, but a flyby of a formation of Type-S scouts painted in national 
> colors and markings would make an interesting attention getter at the Paris 
> Airshow or during the now in progress Fleet Week.  It would make ol' Bill 
> Sweetman wet his pants!

Depends on just *whose* national colors they are flying, now doesn't
it?

Personally, I'd like to see a formation of Skalavans (from Lee Correy's
"Manna") do a fast pass.

For those not familiar with the book, the Skalavan were an interesting
"interface" fighter. Capable of operating from Geosynch orbit down to
sea level. For them a "fast pass" in the air would be at Mach 25.

I think a Mach 25 pass by *anything* would impress the folks at the
airshow. 

BTW, they used some cute induced ionization tricks to tailor the
airflow over the airframe. Kept the plasma from burning through, and
kept the airflow smooth even at hypersonic speeds.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:58:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: 21st century spaceports

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 10/9/99 3:54:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
> shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
>
> << Being that high up, and only 5 degrees from the equator would make them
>  one *hell* of a launch site if anyone ever feels like doing it. >>
>
> I say the southwest of the US. LOT's of flat land, and the feds already own 
> alot of it...

True enough.

> I bet there would be one in Europe, one in Asia, and one in pacific rim. Put 
> one in  each major area of high tech and commerce...
>
> Of course IE shows one in Phoenix Arizona, one in Western Australia
> (Perth?), and one in north Africa (AECCO whatever the heck that
> means) that looks like it's in Libya or Algeria...

Well, until you get to the really ridiculous drive efficiencies at
later TLs, you want to be near the equator (gives you a thousand mile
an hour boost), at high altitude (saves fighting air resistance).

Other considerations are having a whole lot of not much along the
prevailing launch path. That's why Kennedy is used for typical shots,
and Vandenberg is used for polar shots. Nothing but empty ocean for the
pieces to fall on if there's a problem.

Someone suggested Singapore. As I recall there's a lot of islands and
whatnot to the east of Singapore. New Guinea just has ocean. Plus
altitude. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:04:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (longish)

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 10/9/99 3:54:47 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
> shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:
>
> << Brrr. Can you imagine sitting there, watching the star get bigger and
>  bigger... <shudder>
>   >>
>
> Simple; set a repeating Mayday message, have a last party to end all 
> parties, and then button up in the low berths. Either you get rescued
> or you get toasted, and you'll never know it...

If the pirates are nasty enough to leave you in that sort of
trajectory, do you *really* think they'd leave you low berths?

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:39:41 -0700
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Derelict starships

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
> Sent: Monday, 11 October 1999 12:36 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1185
>
>
> >Yeah, and I really want to dip my nice red-hot crytaliron hull in a
> >brine bath. Seriously IMO landing recently re-entered, and thus
> >somewhat warm, starships in salty sea water is proably not going to do
> >much for their longevity.
>
> Since dumping or reflecting heat is a serious design
> concideration, I would
> assume that this is allready factered into starships designs.
>
> The Space shuttle's black insulation bricks can be touched
> SECONDS after being
> taken out of a furnace. While the bricks still glow.
>
> A spaceship doing any reasonable speed required for
> landing/takeoff will be
> designed to dump reaction heat generated by friction, if only to
> protect the
> crew inside.
>
> And lets face it, Travelelr material bounces plasma. Salt water
> would not affect
> it...
>
> ObTrav : A deralict spaceship is found submurged underwater, from the
> Interstellar Wars. The hulls are fine, but the nuclear missiles
> have rusted to
> critical state, and need to be removed before damaging the
> enviroment (booms,
> radiation el at)
>
> Darryl
>
> And then on Regina was the "rusting hulk" of a General Products Kinunir
class battle-cruiser escort (see I found a type classification for the
Kinunir). Anyone know why this class which wass based in the Spinward
Marches was named for worlds in the Solomani Rim?
Antony Farrell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:33:19 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)

From:           	"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Date sent:      	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:36:13 +1300

> On 11 Oct 99, at 18:00, The Roc wrote:

> > My wife works in childcare and has seen over the years, women whom breast
> > feed, with children only 9-10 months older than the new baby.  That's to
> > say that the youngest child was conceived within days of the eldest's
> > birth and while breastfeeding that child.  I can't say how common it is
> > though.
> 
> Apparently 40% of non-nursing and 15% of nursing mothers being 
> menstruation within 6 weeks, and about 10% of mothers will be fertile 
> before their first post-birth period, so I'd say "not very".

From University of Aberdeen study (1988). Exclusive breastfeeding (that is
the child is exclusively breastfeed) was found to be over 99% effective in
preventing ovulation. This result was confirmed in several followup studies.
The effectiveness of breastfeeding as contraception in modern times has
been dramatically reduced by the introduction of infant formula and earlier
weaning.


Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:33:19 +1300
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)

From:           	"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Date sent:      	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:22:32 +1300

> > Exclusively breastfeeding is a 99%+ effective contraceptive (thats equal
> > to the best chemical contraceptive). It drops off fairly rapidly once the
> > child starts to wean. Effectiveness is also decreased dramatically if the
> > child is not exclusively breasfed.
> 
> The stats I've been reading are somewhere in between these, and suggest 
> that breastfeeding is of little use as a contraceptive after the first 
> nine months of breastfeeding.

Because by nine months the child is (or at least should be) no longer being
exclusively breastfeed. If the mother is not having to constantly produce milk
the conctraceptive effect is lost.
> 
> 
> --
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
> Wellington, New Zealand
> 
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
> 



Andrew etc
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:13:08 -0700
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Feudal Technocracy

Justice Hypercleats wrote:
> 

> BTW: how would you classify a planetary government that was just a facade,
> with a super-secret 'real' leadership?  Would you use the government de jour
> type in the UPP, or the nature of the de facto leadership?  And how to
> indicate such a multi-faced government in a UPP?  Certainly not
> "Balkanized".

Either a type 6. Captive government or a classic type 3. Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy.

In point of fact, I think you're over-complicating things. The Government
types in the classic 0-D list are actually pretty wide open, and the
classification is supposed to represent which type it is _closest_ to.

Now, how your hypothetical Secret Society government would be classified by
the IISS...well that's another kettle of land crabs. Depends on how close to
The Truth the IISS got in it's evaluation of the system.

As far as your myriad 'technocracies' go, they are all adequately described by
the existing gov codes; no where in the description of the government codes is
a description of the priveledged classes in each system, your Religious
Technocracy is simply a Religious dictatorship, wherein the prest class
_happens_ to be the techies.

/Best Simpsons Reverend imitation
And it is written 'Thou shalt stock Jolt IN the machines of vending' 
So sayeth The Book of BOFH, Chapt 12, Verse 16, Byte 7 ;-)
/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:12:01 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

Walter G. Smith writes:

>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>No, I expressed myself badly. I meant that any power plant is more efficient
>than a jump drive:
><snip calculations>
>>>>>>>>>
>You're measuring one drive as it generates and delivers power over
>a 30-day constant performance period, the other drive as it generates & 
>delivers over a 20-40 *minute* peak/redline performance period. It comes
>as no surprise to me that the two have vastly different efficiency ratings.
 
Who said anything about being surprised? That wasn't my point at all. My
point was that the accumulators on the Annic Nova allowed a solar collector
to build up a huge charge over a period of 1 to 6 weeks. Substitute a
standard power plant and you can build up the same charge over a couple of
days[*]. Then, when the accumulators are fully charged, you can dump the
whole load into the jump drive capacitors over that 20-40 minute period.
The net result is that instead of 50% of the ship's volume used on jump
fuel tankage, you have 1% of it taken up by Super Accumulators (tm). Now,
unless such accumulators are insanely expensive (and the total value of
the Annic Nova was estimated to be only MCr200, hull, drives, and pinnaces
with a value from new of MCr214 included), they are far, far better
ecomomically than standard ships. Even if they are insanely expensive, 
they would be used for special purposes (A ship capable of multiple jumps
on a few tons of fuel would be able to cross the Great Rift, for example).

Thus there must be some reason why not everybody is using them. I liked
the suggestion about the very rare, naturally occurring jumpspace bubbles,
except that such a bubble would, IMO, be worth more than the estimated
MCr200 alone.

It would be interesting to design a dedicated 600 T merchant ship with a
set of Annic Nova accumulators, figure out how much more the extra cargo
space would allow it to earn and work out the value of the accumulators,
but I'm swamped with work for the moment. Anybody else like to try it?

[*] Or in a week by a power plant one third as large if you claim that the
    one week period is an upper limit to how fast the accumulators can be
    filled.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:36:02 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Forms

You have but to speak the words.  Oh, you did.  Done. :-)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, WebDev

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
> Ok, how do I get the forms posted on downport? Here are the first two.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:46:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Feudal technocracy

"Justice Hypercleats" <eris@sierratel.com> writes:

>Feudalism is a perfectly good general government type.  I imagine that there
>are many worlds within the larger 3I structure that maintain the Lord-Vassal
>relationship throughout: from the Emperor --> High Peerage --> Subsector
>Nobility --> Lord of the individual planetary 'fief' --> Lords of the
>'counties' on that world --> minor Lords of the 'estates' within the
>counties --> Yeomanry --> to the peasant/serf.  If the IISS classified such
>a government, "Feudalism" would be the perfect term.

I disagree. IMO the Imperial structure is split. I think that Imperial nobles
deal with Imperial affairs, not internal planetary affairs. Of course, some
Imperial nobles will have planetary-level vassals, but that would be wearing
a different hat (or coronet ;-). I posted my opinion of the structure of the
Imperium about a year ago, so with apologies to those who's seen it before,
I think there's enough newcomers to excuse a repost.

(BTW. if anyone has been selected to write GT:Nobles and you like any of
this, feel free to mine the article for ideas or even use it verbatim).
 
		      THE STRUCTURE OF THE IMPERIUM
		      =============================

In theory the structure of the Imperium is very simple: Each star system
constitutes a sovereignty governed in any way its inhabitants see fit. As
members of the Imperium these sovereignties have surrendered certain of
their rights to the Emperor; they agree to let him collect and administer
a certain percentage of their annual production, to obey a number of basic
laws (the Imperial High Laws), to let him tax certain activities, and to
leave foreign relations with non-Imperial states to him. The Emperor turns
over these rights to his vassals in return for fealthy and these vassals in
turn parcel them out to lesser vassals. Each star system thus have two
associated authorities: its own government administering system affairs and
an Imperial noble administering Imperial affairs.

That's the theory. Human nature (and most alien natures too) being what it
is, it is no surprise that in practice exceptions abound. Indeed, it could
be said that the exceptions are the norm.
        MULTI-SYSTEM SOVEREIGNTIES: The Imperium frown on multi-system
sovereignties, but quite a number of these exist. In the early days of the
Imperium many pocket empires joined it as a unit. Whenever possible the
Imperium tries to break these up eventually, but a number still exist even
today. On occasion the Imperium has even been obliged to form some of its
own to meet exceptional political problems; the largest and most famous
examples are the Antarean and Solomani Autonomous regions. A more frequent
source of multi-system sovereignties are the planting of colonies by member
systems. Imperial policy favors the granting of full membership to colony
worlds that have grown big enough to make it on their own (which is why some
colonies are deliberately kept much smaller than optimum by their mother
worlds), but if a former colony prefers union with their mother world there
is not much the Imperium can do about it. Mega-corporations and the largest
sector-wide companies constitutes another kind of multi-system sovereignty.
        IMPERIAL WORLD LEADERS: The principle of having two different kinds
of leaders, system leaders and Imperial nobles, frequently runs afoul of the
pride and ambition of powerful world leaders, especially if they are
hereditary rulers. It often becomes a political necessity to appoint them
Imperial nobles. Thus the Matriarch of Mora is both the head of the Moran
government and the Duchess of Mora Subsector. The reverse can also happen.
An unscrupulous Imperial noble assigned to a young, developing world is in a
very good position to acquire title to vast tracts of land. In some cases he
can end up owning, or at least running, the whole world.
	IMPERIALLY OWNED WORLDS: Over the years the Imperium have acquired
outright ownership of a lot of real estate including a number of whole
worlds. When that is the case, the noble assigned to it controls both its
internal and its Imperial affairs.
        
Imperial nobles have two different kinds of fiefs. One is a personal fief
granted to him in order to provide him with a secure income. Money
derived from personal fiefs goes into the noble's private accounts and are
theoretically his to spend as he wants (in practice nobles with really
big personal incomes may be expected to contribute some of that wealth
for various semi-official purposes). This kind of fief is sometimes also
called an estate (an Imperial estate to distinguish it from a personal
estate which the noble owns in his own right). The size and value of an
Imperial estate can vary tremendously. Not only may the Emperor give purely
symbolic estates to nobles who are rich in their own right and substantial
estates to others who are less well endowed, but a relatively poor estate
granted centuries earlier may have grown in value over the years.

The other kind of fief is the kind described in the first paragraph of this
article, the power to collect and administer (or in the case of lesser nobles,
to collect and pass on to higher authorities) Imperial taxes. This is also
sometimes called a charge.

It is usually said that each Imperial world has a marquis associated with it.
This is true if the world is of reasonably high tech level and has a
population level of 7 or 8. The Imperial taxes from such a world comes to
something between MCr1000 and MCr100,000. Any world with taxes less than
MCr1000 will propably only rate a baron. A world with taxes higher than
MCr100,000 rates a count. Some worlds are too small to rate even a baron.
Such worlds are usually part of a neighboring fief.
 
Rank            Charge                  Typical estate         Typical value

Knight          -                       -                       -
Banneret        -                       10 square kilometers    MCr5
Baron           Part of world           100 sq km               MCr50
Marquis         One world               1000 sq km              MCr500
Count           Several worlds          10,000 sq km            MCr5,000
Duke            Subsector/sector        100,000 sq km           MCr50,000
Archduke        Domain                  Entire world            MCr500,000

- -----------------------------


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1188
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